Sounds as if you are about there now. Phew! Could well be that the regulator isn't enthusiastic about cutting in, and if it's a battery like Duncan describes, that could be why. Some can be a bit funny, but I'd stick with it and see how it goes.
(Thought the light switch might not have been OFF when you did the last test - I'm glad that was all it was. And the business with routes to earth from the horn feed is probably some of the same thing. Although the horn power supply comes off the ammeter, battery side (so effectively straight off the battery, nothing showing on the ammeter because current doesn't flow across it), the wire is still connected to Terminal 3 indirectly.)
Lights, capacitors, action.
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Groily
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
I guess it's either replace the battery or get hold of another charger to see if I can get something into this one, hmmm.Duncan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:59 am Some early regulators would not kick-in if the battery is flat, one dodge was to disconnect the battery, start the engine then reconnect the battery. On reading through I believe that you said that your battery was a cyclon/Burlen type and was flat, if so I have never managed to recover one if these successfully.
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
My regulator is a Dyno Tec. Doesn't seem to be one anyone has ever heard of and not much to be found online about them which is why I've been thinking it ,might be best to replace it with one that's more of a known quantity.SPRIDDLER wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:02 pm I haven't looked back through all 7 pages of this (intriguing) saga but which regulator do you have? Yours would seem to be working but some can be permanently damaged by having been connected with the wrong polarity, and with all your fiddling about and earlier experiments with a capacitor etc. that may have ocurred..........
I had an AO (Al Osborne) regulator that was very reluctant to wake up after the revs dropped around town with the lights on.
If a(nother) new battery and a new reg were all it took to get it working then I'd happily shell out for them.
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
I should maybe give it a good run with no lights on and see if I get any improvement in the battery. I was messing about with having them on and off last time I took it out.Groily wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:27 pm Sounds as if you are about there now. Phew! Could well be that the regulator isn't enthusiastic about cutting in, and if it's a battery like Duncan describes, that could be why. Some can be a bit funny, but I'd stick with it and see how it goes.
(Thought the light switch might not have been OFF when you did the last test - I'm glad that was all it was. And the business with routes to earth from the horn feed is probably some of the same thing. Although the horn power supply comes off the ammeter, battery side (so effectively straight off the battery, nothing showing on the ammeter because current doesn't flow across it), the wire is still connected to Terminal 3 indirectly.)
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Joker_Bones
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
I have a Dyno Tec regulator on my G12 running at 6v.
These fitting instructions came with the bike, if they are of any use... I didn't make a very good job of the order and orientation
These fitting instructions came with the bike, if they are of any use... I didn't make a very good job of the order and orientation
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
Interesting.
Wonder if I need to polarise my dynamo? Would it run the lights if it was polarised incorrectly or so we think that my dynamo seems to be good?
Wonder if I need to polarise my dynamo? Would it run the lights if it was polarised incorrectly or so we think that my dynamo seems to be good?
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Groily
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
The dynamo works fine and I think it has from the beginning of this epic. How else would you get lights with the engine running and no battery!?
An old-fashioned mechanical regulator will work with either polarity (ie with Pos or Neg earth), but the dynamo polarity has to match the battery earth.
That is, the dynamo has to produce negative volts, or it has to produce positive volts. It can happily do either, and it can do it going round in either direction.
With no battery fitted and the dynamo's rotation set correctly - which yours definitively is - the lights will come on with the engine whichever way the dynamo's polarity has been set if using a mechanical regulator. Set one way the ammeter will read +for + (what we want to see), set the other, it'll read + for - and - for + and the wires have to be reversed at the ammeter.
Electronic regulators state their polarity on them and will only function if the polarity of the dynamo and the battery earth are aligned to that.
The reason they won't work 'either way' is because diodes and similar modern gizmos in them are one-way streets in terms of letting either negative volts, or positive, through.
If connected up the wrong way, some electronic ones survive, some won't. DVR2s will survive reverse hook up. I don't know if yours would.
If the regulator you have says it is for Positive Earth and you are in doubt about the polarity of the dynamo, then all you need to do is 'flash the field' by touching battery live (that's Negative) to the F terminal on the dynamo very briefly. The Matchless Clueless site and innumerable other places explain it very clearly. Won't hurt to do it anyway - it will confirm the existing polarity if it's already correct or reverse it if needs be.
(But it won't fix the regulator if it has been damaged by a reverse hook-up.)
When polarity is reversed, you have to revisit the ammeter as mentioned above and swap the wires across between the terminals so it shows 'charge' and 'discharge' correctly. I think yours shows discharge correctly when switching things on with the engine stopped (??) - the Q is what does it show with the engine running? If it shows 'Charge' when it should, then I think your planets are already aligned and the dyn, reg and battery polarity are OK.
If as things are currently, with the battery refitted and Positive earth, you get lights that brighten with revs, your 7.5ish across battery live to earth at revs, and the ammeter shows a Charge, then I don't think you need to do anything apart from consider a better regulator and, worst case, look into the battery situation if it won't hold charge any more. It is possible that if the ammeter doesn't indicate as it should with the engine running that the battery has indeed died, but I'd expect to see at least something. I'd charge it up (if it will) on an independent charger before refitting, as some regulators - a point already made somewhere in this medium-length novel - don't work properly when the battery is flat.
An old-fashioned mechanical regulator will work with either polarity (ie with Pos or Neg earth), but the dynamo polarity has to match the battery earth.
That is, the dynamo has to produce negative volts, or it has to produce positive volts. It can happily do either, and it can do it going round in either direction.
With no battery fitted and the dynamo's rotation set correctly - which yours definitively is - the lights will come on with the engine whichever way the dynamo's polarity has been set if using a mechanical regulator. Set one way the ammeter will read +for + (what we want to see), set the other, it'll read + for - and - for + and the wires have to be reversed at the ammeter.
Electronic regulators state their polarity on them and will only function if the polarity of the dynamo and the battery earth are aligned to that.
The reason they won't work 'either way' is because diodes and similar modern gizmos in them are one-way streets in terms of letting either negative volts, or positive, through.
If connected up the wrong way, some electronic ones survive, some won't. DVR2s will survive reverse hook up. I don't know if yours would.
If the regulator you have says it is for Positive Earth and you are in doubt about the polarity of the dynamo, then all you need to do is 'flash the field' by touching battery live (that's Negative) to the F terminal on the dynamo very briefly. The Matchless Clueless site and innumerable other places explain it very clearly. Won't hurt to do it anyway - it will confirm the existing polarity if it's already correct or reverse it if needs be.
(But it won't fix the regulator if it has been damaged by a reverse hook-up.)
When polarity is reversed, you have to revisit the ammeter as mentioned above and swap the wires across between the terminals so it shows 'charge' and 'discharge' correctly. I think yours shows discharge correctly when switching things on with the engine stopped (??) - the Q is what does it show with the engine running? If it shows 'Charge' when it should, then I think your planets are already aligned and the dyn, reg and battery polarity are OK.
If as things are currently, with the battery refitted and Positive earth, you get lights that brighten with revs, your 7.5ish across battery live to earth at revs, and the ammeter shows a Charge, then I don't think you need to do anything apart from consider a better regulator and, worst case, look into the battery situation if it won't hold charge any more. It is possible that if the ammeter doesn't indicate as it should with the engine running that the battery has indeed died, but I'd expect to see at least something. I'd charge it up (if it will) on an independent charger before refitting, as some regulators - a point already made somewhere in this medium-length novel - don't work properly when the battery is flat.
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
I’m certain I’ve never mixed up the wires coming out the dynamo into the reg and I’m pretty sure I’ve never connected the battery the wrong way around to the bike, I did try connecting the charger different ways around to see if it got any reaction (didn’t) and I’ve tried measuring current on both the positive and negative sides of the battery but that won’t have done any harm so I don’t think I’ve fried the reg, think it must just be a bit lazy at switching back to providing voltage to the battery.
I looked back through my posts and I did report having gotten a bit of charge into an already quite charged battery not that long ago and not much has changed since then.
There was a day I noticed my brake light switch wasn’t working very well so I sat with the engine off working at improving the switch which I think flattened the battery a bit, then I might have left the battery in the bike out in the garage for a while when it was freezing cold then I had the petrol tank issues which meant the bike didn’t get used for a few weeks so I can account for the battery draining and sitting flat.
Think I’ll pick up another battery and see how it all works.
I need a well charged battery to flash the dynamo according to the instructions that Joker_Bones posted (will cross reference with other instructions on doing the job too) so, new battery, check the Moto Batt charger I bought will work to maintain it off the bike, use the new battery to flash the dynamo, fingers crossed that is all it needs.
Oh, I have blown one of the side/parking light bulbs at some point and when I went looking for a replacement bulb I found some led alternatives so have gotten a pair of them. I also see led bulbs are available for stop/tail and headlamp, worth changing them all over to reduce power requirement?
I looked back through my posts and I did report having gotten a bit of charge into an already quite charged battery not that long ago and not much has changed since then.
There was a day I noticed my brake light switch wasn’t working very well so I sat with the engine off working at improving the switch which I think flattened the battery a bit, then I might have left the battery in the bike out in the garage for a while when it was freezing cold then I had the petrol tank issues which meant the bike didn’t get used for a few weeks so I can account for the battery draining and sitting flat.
Think I’ll pick up another battery and see how it all works.
I need a well charged battery to flash the dynamo according to the instructions that Joker_Bones posted (will cross reference with other instructions on doing the job too) so, new battery, check the Moto Batt charger I bought will work to maintain it off the bike, use the new battery to flash the dynamo, fingers crossed that is all it needs.
Oh, I have blown one of the side/parking light bulbs at some point and when I went looking for a replacement bulb I found some led alternatives so have gotten a pair of them. I also see led bulbs are available for stop/tail and headlamp, worth changing them all over to reduce power requirement?
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SPRIDDLER
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
Whoaah, Ande! Don't introduce more variables.The Vandal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:59 am I also see led bulbs are available for stop/tail and headlamp, worth changing them all over to reduce power requirement?
First get it sorted as it is.
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
Which taken at the flood............'
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.
Haha I know, I was thinking that as I typed it out!