Regulator wiring

Information relating to the Matchless G12 or AJS Model 31 650cc twin
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Titch
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Regulator wiring

Post by Titch »

Hi, I’ve fitted a new Lucas wiring harness to my 1963 model 31 and have just started installing a Pazon ignition and regulator. Unfortunately the colours on the rectifier don’t coincide with the colour wire mentioned in Pazons regulator instructions. Has anyone fitted a Pazon ignition and regulator? The ignition is all ok . Any help with the regulator wiring would be really appreciated.
Yves.Astein
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Re: Regulator wiring

Post by Yves.Astein »

I have a Pazon Ignition paired with an Alton altinator. If no one else can help you with easy explanations, I can heat up the Garage and analyse my Wiring for you.

Yves
Groily
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Re: Regulator wiring

Post by Groily »

This is the Pazon regulator/rectifier data plus wiring schematic for their single phase unit (which I assume is the version we're probably talking about)
https://www.pazon.com/files/PDF/RR12-6.pdf

In what respect do the colours on yours not correspond to the data sheet I wonder? Maybe there were earlier versions using other colours??

Convention has it that the yellow leads are the ac ones off the alternator stator, and the black and red are dc regulated output and earth (with you having the choice of whether to go + (red) or - (black) to earth). The blue loop wire is snipped if it's a 12v system.

If by chance you have a three phase regulator (and a three phase alternator!), then there are 3 yellow wires from the stator, and a red and a black, same as for the single phase. 12v only in this case, so no blue loop to leave or to snip.
https://www.pazon.com/files/PDF/RR12-3.pdf
Titch
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Re: Regulator wiring

Post by Titch »

Hi, I have three wires from the stator, red, black and green which plug into the wiring loom The wires that exit the loom and connect to the rectifier are white/green stripe, white/ brown. and two green/black joined together. I’m using the Lucas loom AMC 4 which I purchased from the club. I have the schematic drawing you gave me the link for.
Groily
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Re: Regulator wiring

Post by Groily »

Got it, sort of - so the real question seems to be - Which wires from the loom go to the wires on the regulator? Which does have the colours shown in the Pazon document after all? I am assuming that the alternator is single phase, and the Pazon box is too??

The AMC4 loom is described as being for 1958-1962 twin machines with coil ignition. For single phase systems. (I do not know if 1963 was exactly the same or not, but probably pretty close.)
Those machines would, I think, have had RM15 alternators with three wires off, 2 of which would have gone to the rectifier and one to the ignition switch for Emergency Ignition. The later RM15 and also slightly later Lucas alternators like RM19 had Green and White and Green and Black to the rectifier, Green and Yellow to the Ignition Switch. Green and Black would then have gone on from the rectifier to the main light switch, terminal 7 and Green and White to switch position 4, so there would have been double terminal connectors on the rectifier. More powerful Lucas single phase units had two wires off only, for 12v operation only, using zener diodes or boxes of tricks like you have bought. Then there were the three phase ones like RM24, which are different kettles of fish.

Your stator wires don't match those colours, but in any event, if you are fitting a Pazon combined regulator rectifier, the wiring loom will need to be tweaked to suit because not all of its various bits and bobs will be needed.

The key thing is to start by getting the alternator hooked up correctly to the new regulator. That needs there to be TWO wires from the stator, not the three separate ones as per original.

So let's ignore the new loom for a moment, and start from the premise that there are only going to be TWO wires going from the alternator to the new box of tricks, one of which will be a doubled-up pair from the alternator.
The question is, with a red a black and a green I don't know which two to double up as that colour combination doesn't figure in the places I've looked so far. If I could find any reference to your colours it would be easier, but sadly I can't. probably the alternator has been repaired in the past and those colours used. You may have more info somewhere on this, and maybe know exactly what alternator version you have?

If you know where the alternator wires went originally then your colours can be mapped to the normal Lucas ones, and the 2 that are the equivalent of Green/Yellow and Green/Black should be joined. Then, that paired wire goes to one yellow lead on the regulator/retifier, and the so-called 'Common' wire goes to the other yellow lead on the Pazon box - doesn't matter which way round. And the red and black wires off the rectifier are a single dc output that goes to switch / ammeter / battery, and the earth. Your choice of earth, the gizmo works either way round. Snip the blue loop if 12v.

When the alternator is connected correctly to the regulator/rectifier, then the rest of the loom can be hooked up. All the bits that control the lights and so on are the same, but there is no green and black wire from regulator to light switch, there's just the DC output wire from the reg/rect and the emergency ignition bit (originally the green/yellow from the alternator), won't be there either. So there are going to be one or two redundant wires.

Often, adopting a combined regulator rectifier is an opportunity to simplify the wiring at the switches considerably, as we no longer need to switch alternator coils in according to what loads are switched on - ignition, lights etc - as all that is needed basically is on/off switches.

In reviewing what you have, the attached pdf, around pages 85 & 86 for wiring diagram of '62 coil ign twins, may be helpful in showing what went where, and the colour code. If it's not too big a file to attach - it might be. It's in the Archives I'm sure, title 1962 AJS Instructions 16 18 20 31 31CS 31CSR

Good Luck!

(Was too big! But think is going this time . . .)
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Titch
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Re: Regulator wiring

Post by Titch »

Awesome thanks, fortunately the previous owner labeled the wiring connections at the alternator plugs before removing them, when I fitted the new loom I used these labels. And with your explanation I have been able to get things sorted. The connection at alternator plugs were red to white/green, black to green/black and green to green/yellow. I’ve removed the green/yellow wire (now redundant)and used a double connector to connect the green and black wires to the green/black wire. The green/white and green/black are now connected to the two yellow wires at the regulator. The second green/black wire that went to the light switch from the old rectifier is also now redundant. The red and black regulator wires were an easy fix. I really appreciate the time you spent researching this for me, I have other work to do with this restoration so it will be a while before I can test the change over. I will keep you posted. Again thank you for your help.
Groily
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Re: Regulator wiring

Post by Groily »

Very glad it may have been helpful. Sounds as if you have it cracked now.

When I have done similar jobs for mates I have tried to make the harness as simple as possible, using whatever bits and pieces the particular owner (and/or I) might have had to hand. We can be real tight-wads round here! The basics are the same, though, for any 12v conversion of a three wire stator.

If you can bear it - and if you can overlook the fact that the colour coding is iffy and in French to boot! - and that there isn't an ignition switch because this is a magneto bike - you can see how few wires (hooking up an ignition coil that would add a couple and a suitable on/off switch) are actually needed for basic functions.

The version here was for a Negative earth Triumph TRW, an early adopter of the alternator /mag combination, but really and truly all these old beasts are near as dammit the same becuase they all use very similar bits from the contemporary Lucas parts bin. This is what I have used on my own two magneto-sparked alternator Norton-engined bikes as well - but not on my own AMC twins, which are 'dynamo and mag' running DVR2 dynamo regulators.

The benefits of simplicity are reflected in 'zero hassle' - touch wood, so far - on all of them. Function wins out every time for me personally - but, of course, doesn't pass rivet-counting scrutiny . . . But then again, what does if we are using later much improved components like your Pazon? And modern air in the tyres! A 'minimised' carefully wired-up alternator (and coil) set-up should be as reliable as anything can be really, in theory at least!

One thing I would always suggest and always include (I think most others here would probably agree) is a FUSE!! (or indeed more than one). Say 10/12A on battery lead for 12v, or 15/20 max for 6.
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Titch
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Re: Regulator wiring

Post by Titch »

Thanks, yes I omitted to say that I fitted a fuse for battery and one the ignition circuit as advised by Pazon. Both are mounted in the toolbox area alongside the battery for easy access.
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