1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Information relating to the Matchless G80 or AJS Model 18 500cc Heavyweight.
Invicta
Member
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:42 pm
Location: Kent , England

1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by Invicta »

I have just been searching the forum and came across the thread '48 rigid speedo drive'. It states that the wheel spindle is put in from the speedo gear box side with the solid boss on the spindle butting up against the gear box. Is this the same for 1949? The reason I ask is that if I put my spindle in like that when I put the spacer with the two flats on it part number 012756 that I believe goes on the other end of the spindle, there is no thread left protruding to get a nut on. I have replaced the rear wheel taper roller bearings with a set from the vintage bearing company, which they said were correct for the year. I was unable to check if the hollow shaft length was correct as the original was chewed off down to within about 3/32" of the end of the tapered bearing track. (Amazingly the PO had had the wheel rebuilt with a new rim with this knackered bearing shaft in it.) I have just received a new spacer part number 012758 , (which it turns out I already had amongst the unidentified parts in the basket This bike was a few lumps and boxes of small bits when I got it. I have over a dozen assorted spacers and no idea where most of them fit) I also ordered the spacer that fits under the speedo gear box part number 41G3L-H265 but it was out of stock. I was hoping that once I had all of the correct spacers I would be able to see how they all fitted together. The cross sectional diagram in my 1949 Bruce Main Smith manual is no help as it is identical to the 1950 one in Christian's archives, which has a totally different bearing set up. My new hollow bearing shaft protrudes very slightly beyond the sprocket side of the hub and on the other side protrudes just beyond the grease seal cover plate, about flush with the circlip.
Does this sound as though it is the correct length of bearing shaft? If it does can anyone please tell me the correct way that the spindle fits and where the spacers actually fit. The wheel spindle is 9 1/4" long and I can only assume that it belongs to the bike, as it was one of the bits in the box.
SPRIDDLER
Member
Posts: 8542
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:00 am
Location: WEST SUSSEX UK

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by SPRIDDLER »

Maybe you have a mix of parts - especially if the PO rebuilt the wheel with whatever he had to hand and re-used the knackered axle. :roll:
If your '1949' bike was made before Sept 1st 1949 it is a 1949 model and would have had the axle inner bearing surface integral with and part of the axle and not a separate and replaceable inner race.
If it was made after Sept 1st 1949 it is a 1950 model and the rear inner and outer races are replaceable.
clive wrote:that looks mightily like the front wheel bearing you have labelled as the 49 rear Spriddler
:oops: Wrong pic uploaded. Must concentrate better in future. Pics removed.
Last edited by SPRIDDLER on Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
User avatar
clive
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 1990 12:00 am
Location: LONDON UK

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by clive »

that looks mightily like the front wheel bearing you have labelled as the 49 rear Spriddler
clive
if it ain't broke don't fix
User avatar
clive
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 1990 12:00 am
Location: LONDON UK

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by clive »

David have a look at page at page 38 of the parts list for a 49 AJS single http://archives.jampot.dk/book/Spares_l ... ingles.pdf
(I cannot do this fancy copying the way Spriddler can)

first question have you got the bearing in the correct way round? its forever since I fitted one but I think the bearing goes in as in the picture ie the longer side towards the brake drum. The correct assembly is starting from the right hand side.
nut std 2 (not illustrated)
washer std 9 (not illustrated)
fork end gap?
013780 spindle
speedo gearbox
41-G3L-H26-5 spacer for speedo gearbox
11905 spindle hollow
012756 spacer fits next to cover plate
brake cover plate
012758 spacer fits in fork end
fork end
washer std 9
nut std 2

I used to own a 49 G80 until about 20 years ago and I think where I have left a gap? above I had a spacer with a flattened section. Its not listed and the one I remember looked as though it may have been hacksawed off something else. So I thought I would look at my 48 frame and I find there is nothing there and nothing listed in the 48 parts list. The spindle must be held centrally by the spacer on the solid spindle being pulled against the frame by the washer and nut on the other side of the forkend. Now I have ridden the 48 G3L around for the last 25 years so perhaps it is correct that there is a gap rather than a spacer at the gap? point.
clive
if it ain't broke don't fix
User avatar
clive
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 1990 12:00 am
Location: LONDON UK

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by clive »

as to the length of the spindle, three possibilities. The hollow spindle bearing may be round the wrong way, the solid lump on the spindle is threaded on (or at least it is on replacements) and I wonder if it can be threaded on the wrong way round, finally the spindle may be too short.
Good luck
clive
if it ain't broke don't fix
Invicta
Member
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:42 pm
Location: Kent , England

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by Invicta »

Thank you for the suggestions gents. OK my bike is certainly from 1949 I have the original buff log book showing it first registered 3rd March 1949. It has matching frame and engine numbers. I was , well still am confused about the hub as it measures 2.6" between the inner flanges so it is not a 4" cotton reel. The replacement bearing was the same as the old one in as much as the rollers are fixed to the hollow shaft and are not replaceable. As for it being the same overall length as the original I can not tell due to part of the original shaft being being chewed or sheared off. I followed the instructions re fitting it the right way round with the slightly longer end of the hollow shaft in the correct direction. The fact that it stick out of the hub by an even amount on both sides indicates that it in the right way round. My solid spindle is one with the boss being part of it. The gap between the fork ends of the rigid frame is 7 3/4". When the spindle is fitted into the slots in the frame by itself with the spacer with the flats on the end it protrudes either side of the frame by the correct amount to get a nut and washer on either end so the spindle length is correct. While looking at it just now I had a Eureka moment and the light came on. :idea: Is that boss a solid part of the spindle or just an interference fit and could it have moved further along the shaft. I can not see AMC wasting time turning down a 3/4" solid diameter bar down to 7/16" and looking at the drawing in the parts book the boss seems much further from the end of the shaft than it does in the drawing. It is almost 2 1/4" from the end of the spindle to the start of the boss. If it could be moved back towards the threaded end the problem would be solved. Shifting it is not going to be easy as I have nickel plated the whole spindle. So the question is does anyone know how far the boss should be from the end of the spindle? If I knew how thick the spacer 41G3LH265 was then I could work it out. I may even have one amongst the spacers that I have , whose locations are yet to be identified. If anyone knows the thickness and hole diameter of this spacer it would be greatly appreciated. AMC classic spares are out of stock and the club spares scheme does not stock them. At least I now know the correct order of assembly. Thanks once again to all.
User avatar
Duncan
Member
Posts: 2118
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:00 am
Location: HAMPSHIRE UK

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by Duncan »

I cant help with 1949 spindles but can confirm that at least on reproduction parts for earlier spacers it is threaded onto the spindle and it is possible for it to be fitted the wrong way around, I will look at my earlier one over the next day or so if no one else beats me to it.
User avatar
clive
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 1990 12:00 am
Location: LONDON UK

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by clive »

I have taken some photos which i will load later. No measurement really necessary. The right hand end of the solid spindle has to sit with the lump against the inside of the frame fork and all that should protrude the other side is enough for the washer (it should be thick) and the nut.
clive
if it ain't broke don't fix
User avatar
clive
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 1990 12:00 am
Location: LONDON UK

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by clive »

This illustrates what I said. Its actually from the earlier 48 frame but the right end of the spindle is the same.
IMG_0622.JPG
And this shot shows the frame fork for the rear wheel. No sign of any sort of spacer to keep the spindle central, and none llisted. I seem to have ridden the bike like this for over 25 years! Any other rigid owner with an idea if there should be a spacer there, if so where is it listed.
IMG_0623.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
clive
if it ain't broke don't fix
Invicta
Member
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:42 pm
Location: Kent , England

Re: 1949 model 18 rear wheel spacers

Post by Invicta »

Hi Clive,
Thank you very much for posting the pictures, as they say a picture paints a thousand words. The spacer, 41G3LH265 is on the inside of the speedo gear box, its job is to prevent the gear box being crushed and to lock it in position when the spindle nuts are tightened.
I can now set to work and shift the boss back down the shaft to where it should be now I can see how it should look. I have yet to acquire a speedo gear box for the bike as one was not in the box of bits. There are several on e bay , but I need to know what size the hole in it should be. I took the one off my 1950 model 18 and that has a 1/2" diameter hole in an inbuilt boss in the speedo gearbox. negating the need for the spacer 41G3LH265. So that one did not help me any. Thank you once again for all your help. David.
Locked