Lights, capacitors, action.

Information relating to the Matchless G3 or AJS Model 16 350cc Heavyweight
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SPRIDDLER
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by SPRIDDLER »

Ah, I hadn't spotted the 'hidden' voltage options.

Hopefully the photo is self-explanatory of what I understand from your info.
Vandal wiring H.jpg
i would still prefer to have the earthing point on the frame rather than only on the battery box so would fit a lead to a clean (unpainted) spot on the frame from the existing earthing nut and bolt on the battery box. Particularly because you have removed the box a time or two and you cannot see how good the connection is between the box and the frame. It looks as though the inside of the box has had a rough 'n ready slap of grey paint which led me to suspect that the battery had been overcharging (on 12v :roll: ) and leaking battery acid had corroded the inside of the box (and maybe the back as well).
Vandal wiring G.jpg

Just a small point and it may be due to the photo but if the black lead coming from what looks like a black plastic fuse holder is the Neg battery lead it looks a bit thin, but O.K. for now.

I'd just fit the new battery (you may need to change the terminals on your battery wires to Lucas/spade type) and see how it goes.
The Vandal wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:35 pm A short is definitely a possibility. My first time riding it it did conk out randomly a couple times. I put it down to my inexperience and I was being distracted by a particularly terrible bmw driver infront of me but it could have been a short.
No, it won't be a short affecting the ignition as the magneto is completely self-contained and not connected to any of the bike wiring.
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by The Vandal »

SPRIDDLER wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:54 am Ah, I hadn't spotted the 'hidden' voltage options.

Hopefully the photo is self-explanatory of what I understand from your info.
Yup, your note about the state of the terminals is duly noted but as you say they are going to need changing anyway.


SPRIDDLER wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:54 ami would still prefer to have the earthing point on the frame rather than only on the battery box so would fit a lead to a clean (unpainted) spot on the frame from the existing earthing nut and bolt on the battery box. Particularly because you have removed the box a time or two and you cannot see how good the connection is between the box and the frame. It looks as though the inside of the box has had a rough 'n ready slap of grey paint which led me to suspect that the battery had been overcharging (on 12v :roll: ) and leaking battery acid had corroded the inside of the box (and maybe the back as well).
I can do a lead to the frame, I'll check there isn't already one.

I haven't had the box off. Yet!

The primer was me, it's now finished in black and looking a lot better. It was pretty crusty in there, very possibly from battery acid. I'll ensure the wiring is all as the regulator says it should be for 6v.
SPRIDDLER wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:54 amJust a small point and it may be due to the photo but if the black lead coming from what looks like a black plastic fuse holder is the Neg battery lead it looks a bit thin, but O.K. for now.
Also duly noted. Will see if I can improve.
SPRIDDLER wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:54 amI'd just fit the new battery (you may need to change the terminals on your battery wires to Lucas/spade type) and see how it goes.

...

No, it won't be a short affecting the ignition as the magneto is completely self-contained and not connected to any of the bike wiring.
For someone with little understanding of electrics I've actually got a fairly good collection of connectors and bits and bobs so changing the terminals should be a problem.

I guess that's good news(?) about it not being a short that caused any cutting out? Mixed blessing lets say as perhaps it was something else haha! :roll:
SPRIDDLER
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by SPRIDDLER »

The Vandal wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:35 pm So the bolt in the battery case, might need to check this but I think the lead going up goes to the back of the reg, the one going down is the one with the battery terminal.
Yes, you're quite right. My mistake on my photo text. (A bit early for me on a Sunday morning ;) ).


The Vandal wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:41 pm Annoyingly I don't have the original battery box, it was a modern(ish) Yuasa that was fitted when I got it, padded out with bits of foam and rubber and held in place with a strap from a Yamaha!

Guess I can strap that Hawker battery in there as it is and pick up a box at some point.
Yes, no additional box needed. I misled you with my earlier pic of the battery and battery case on my '54 G3LS as the '54 models had a small kidney shaped tool box and the battery was exposed to the elements. In '55 AMC changed to a larger slab box which had a separate compartment inside (as yours) for the battery which was secured with a rubber strap.
This is the '54 layout........
Battery carrier.JPG
The Vandal wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:01 pm I haven't had the box off. Yet!

[quoteThe primer was me, it's now finished in black and looking a lot better. It was pretty crusty in there, very possibly from battery acid.
:oops:
I'll ensure the wiring is all as the regulator says it should be for 6v.
I'm pretty sure it will be. It was the added uncertainty about your capacitor venture that made me wonder what wiring mods you had done but your subsequent info and photos help a lot. It also takes a while for 'helpers' to become familiar with the ability/facilities/ambitions of new contributors and their bikes.

As a Guest you are limited to 90 days on the website so you will find it worthwhile to join as a subscriber for £28 a year and have access to the club spare parts, monthly magazine and full access to all the techy info, articles and the techy 'Search' facility on the website.
The website for our relatively small club is run by volunteers and funded by members' subscriptions, receiving no income from any advertising or data use. ;)
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by The Vandal »

Ah right, I thought maybe you ran the box inside the box? Case inside the box? Box inside the case? You know what I mean!

I have just joined up, I suspect I will be needing more advice as I work my way around the bike and you've been very helpful so far, thanks!
The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by The Vandal »

There is no further earth connection from the battery box so I will put one together.

The wiring of the regulator seems to be in order. Ish.

The reg is marked "Green to F, Yellow to D" and those go into one bit of insulation and off to what I think is the dynamo. (pic2)

The orange and brown turn into purple and black and that goes into the loom, up to the nacelle and to the light switch first but there is a wire piggy backing off of it over to the ammeter. (pic3)

One of the connections to the headlamp bulb (yellow wires at bottom of pic3) was pretty suspect so I've redone that with a new bullet connector.

Image
Image
Image

There is generally a lot of connections, this colour wire turning into that and the over enthusiastic use of insulating tape that screams "Someone has been here" so I do wonder if I should just rip it all out and replace with a new loom.

Oh, on the insufficient looking negative terminal, would this be up to the job as replacement?

Image
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clive
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by clive »

27 amp cable should be able to support 162 watts of equipment at 6 volts or 324 at 12 volts. So yes it should be fine, personally I have 15 amp fuses in my 6 volts bikes which has proved sufficient.
On a different issue although you have joined the club your current sign in is still as a guest so your posts are still being moderated and you will not have full access to the site. You will need to email the Eamonn webmaster@jampot.com to get it linked to your membership details so that you can continue to be the Vandal.
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SPRIDDLER
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by SPRIDDLER »

The Vandal wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:36 pm There is no further earth connection from the battery box so I will put one together.
:thumbup:

The reg is marked "Green to F, Yellow to D" and those go into one bit of insulation and off to what I think is the dynamo. (pic2)

The orange and brown turn into purple and black and that goes into the loom, up to the nacelle and to the light switch first but there is a wire piggy backing off of it over to the ammeter. (pic3)
That's all correct. The 'F' is an input wire to the 'F' (Field) connection point on the dynamo and the 'D' is the output wire from the 'Dynamo' to the regulator.
There is generally a lot of connections, this colour wire turning into that and the over enthusiastic use of insulating tape that screams "Someone has been here" so I do wonder if I should just rip it all out and replace with a new loom.
No surprise there. After so many years and owners many or most of our bikes are the same. In fact the wiring inside your headlamp looks perfectly O.k to me and well done. Although new looms are available I wouldn't consider changing anything until you have it sorted initially or you won't know where to start looking if there's a problem. Always take photos before you change anything so that it can be returned to how it was. We have all made the mistake of thinking we'll remember.
Oh, on the insufficient looking negative terminal, would this be up to the job as replacement?
Yep, that'll be fine. Our (feeble) 6v systems need every bit of help. Inadequate wire size and dirty/corroded connections can easily add up to losing a precious volt.

Thanks for joining. I don't know if it has been mentioned before but you'll find the link below carries all the factory Owners Manuals, Workshop Manuals and Spares List (under 'Books'). The factory part numbers are essential when you look for stuff and/or order parts from club spares.

Under 'Technical' there are masses of techy articles.

http://archives.jampot.dk/

This is also an excellent website, especially for leccy stuff - it was written (in simple, practical language) by a club member and AMC bike owner.

https://www.matchlessclueless.com/
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The Vandal
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by The Vandal »

I think I’ll need to try and find a wiring diagram.

I made up a little cable yesterday to earth to the frame and got out for a spin on it.

The ammeter no longer seemed to be doing the drop as the revs increased but it was still pretty all over the place. It was generally showing a charge at first, dropping slightly as the revs decreased, then it settled around zero for a while then went to full discharge. After a while not moving off of full discharge I got off and wiggled all the wiring I could get to while ticking over and also giving it some revs to see if I could detect a break or lose connection but I couldn’t really see any moment but when I set off again it came up to +4 and sat there or thereabouts till I got home.

Once back I removed the dynamo cover to see if there was anything obvious there but it all looked ok.

I did wonder if the discolouration where the brushes run is normal or not?

Image

I also noticed that I've done a really rubbish job of mounting the capacitor and it can and does move around a fair bit so that's probably not helping things.
Groily
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by Groily »

Does an ammeter tell us anything when a capacitor is playing battery?
Dunno, but doubt it behaves even close to how it would in the circuit it is designed for, because capacitors are fleeting repositories of voltage, not sources of serious current.
Best test right now is to start engine and see if lights brighten with revs ( come on even).
Even better approach, get diagram from archives (all dyn bikes are near enough the same allowing for choice of earth) and read up in Matchless Clueless like said Spriddler, who is wise. And imho - get a battery!
Commutators get a bit carbony - suggest good wipe with suitably-soaked cotton bud if you find the dynamo tests show no output. Worth a try. The dyn looks good, as Spriddler also said - recent refurb by looks of, but I am staring at pic on a mobile from far away on holiday which may not be definitive!
SPRIDDLER
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Re: Lights, capacitors, action.

Post by SPRIDDLER »

Yup, all that Groily suggests. I've never used a cap instead of a battery so I can't draw any conclusion from your ammeter observations.

I've also added an Earth from the dynamo to the battery. Better to have additional Earths rather than rely on continuity from components to frame.
Clutch cable gearbox bend.JPG
The Vandal wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:36 am I think I’ll need to try and find a wiring diagram.
Use the link I gave you on Saturday..........
SPRIDDLER wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:25 pm You will see it in the wiring diagram on page 84 here:

http://archives.jampot.dk/book/Owners_m ... Manual.pdf

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